A Tantalising Talk with Lucinda Hawksley and Humphrey Hawksley

8th February

We recently had the delight of hosting a rousing talk with award-winning authors Lucinda Hawskley and Humphrey Hawksley at Riverstone Kensington. This was the latest event in our ‘In Conversation With’ series, where residents and guests engage with figures in an intimate conversation.

The speakers

Humphrey Hawksley is an author and journalist who was a foreign correspondent for the BBC and has travelled to every continent in his coverage of crises. Humphrey’s impressive career includes initiating a global campaign against the enslavement of children in the chocolate industry in the early 2000s.

Lucinda is the great-great-great granddaughter of the 19th-century novelist, Charles Dickens, and is an accomplished and award-winning historian and author in her own right. Her work includes biographies, social histories, art history and travel writing.

The conversation

The two Hawksleys shared a treasure trove of adventures, history, political insights, keeping guests on the edge of their seats. The journey covered stories ranging from The Beatles in North Korea to the Royal Archives Secrets and Chocolate Slavery.

Humphrey Hawksley (HH): Many years ago, I was working for a broadcast magazine in Brunei. When I arrived, greeting me on the tarmac was a red carpet and a band of honour on both sides! I was about 25 years old at the time and I wondered who this warm welcome was for - and it was for me! It turned out that my great-great-great uncle, Thomas Hawksley, had built the drainage system of Brunei and I shook the hands of these people not knowing, at that time, who on earth he was!

Lucinda Hawksley (LH): We hosted an online event in lockdown called ‘Are We Related?’ where we had several genealogists, and many other Hawksleys join us. And one or two of them from different branches said, “You are both related to Thomas Hawksley”!

HH: Lucinda and I are distant relatives, and there may be people in the room here today who could be distant relatives of Charles Dickens too!

Lucinda, do you think you would like Charles Dickens as a person?

LH: My first book connected to Dickens was about his daughter, Katey, who lived on Victoria Road in Kensington. She was a professional artist, part of Lord Leighton’s circle, and she is almost forgotten today because she painted under her married name of Katey Perugini, rather than Katey Dickens.

In writing her biography, I came to know Dickens as a father and as a person, rather than just through studies in literature. One of the things I love about his social conscience is the fact that he was absolutely brilliant at changing the society he lived in. He was a journalist until the end of his life. Had he been alive now, I think he would have been doing the kind of work that you do. He would have been very proud of you, Humphrey.

HH: The nature of journalism, no matter your passions or what you come into, is that you are generally talking to the underdog - they are the ones who will speak to you.

Around the year of 1999, I stumbled across a story that children were being used to harvest cocoa in West Africa and this cocoa was owned or bought by big household names in chocolate. Once I arrived back in London, I expected to have an honest exchange with them, but instead, they wrote to the director-general of the BBC saying that I should be fired for making up a story! We managed to keep covering this story, and in 2001, they introduced some legislation in America but nothing happened here. The establishment always retains control. In fact, the number of child slaves in West Africa has increased since that legislation.

Question from the audience: Did Mars and Cadbury ever acknowledge their role in this?

HH: We covered a story about a ship that was discovered carrying children, but the chocolate companies refused to comment and spoke as one industry. It was their rule. I said to the man from Cadbury, “You are a Quaker Foundation company that respects human rights and you have values.” He broke ranks the next day, issued a statement, and then resigned.

Even now, none of them [the chocolate companies] are slave free. We have done absolutely nothing about it at all, here in Britain.

After such fascinating insights, the audience was then transported by Lucinda to the birth of the Suffragette movement, Dickens' opinion on fake news, and the salacious and influential Princess Louise.

HH: You've written some remarkable biographies, one of which was about Princess Louise. Could you tell us more about her?

LH: Princess Louise lived from 1848 to 1939 and was the longest-living resident of Kensington Palace. She was a local and was the advisor to five monarchs, including her mother, Queen Victoria, of whom she sculptured the current statue outside of the palace.

Princess Louise was a glamorous woman - and she had a great load of scandal in her life. The book was really hard to research, as the Royal Archives had closed her files, so I named it ‘The Mystery of Princess Louise’... the only time that a publisher has kept my title!

The Queen's sister, Princess Margaret, identified with Princess Louise and wanted to write about her as she thought she was wonderfully scandalous. Even she wasn't allowed to see the files!

Ending the event on a high note, after several questions from the audience and lively debate, Humphrey shared one of his ‘“wackiest” stories, from when he led a BBC delegation in North Korea.

HH: North Koreans are quite humorous and they enjoy a drink. Our group was sitting down and somebody started playing ‘Hey Jude’ and soon we all joined in. Our minders, who had been quite fun at the time, suddenly went quiet and said we should stop. I responded that it was such a shame that the Beatles had broken up and he pulled me to the side and told me that they had not broken up because they were coming over to play for the Great Leader. John Lennon was still alive for North Korea!”

Following the success of their first talk together, Lucinda and Humphrey reunited at Riverstone Fulham on the 8th of February for another enthralling conversation. Such events that spark imagination and encourage debate are central to Riverstone’s ethos of adding life to your years.